Ground owners and stupid squadding times.

[+.com (A.Lee)]

It is the Leics. Skeet Doubles Champs tomorrow.

A prestigious county championship event?
Well, not quite, there were 5 people booked down for it at 4pm today.
I was going to put my name down, and asked what times were available -
any really. OK, 10am I say, then I noticed 2 times down on the list -
10am and 11:30am.
What is the 2nd time at 11:30 for? I ask.
'That is your second round.'
"But it is only 50 shots total, with 5 shooters on the squad, 50 shots
could be done in 40 minutes tops, and with what looks like 3 or 4 in a
squad, it may well be over in 30 minutes"
'Well, thats how it is planned'
"OK, dont bother putting me down then, as I just havent got time to hang
around here for an hour waiting for a 2nd round."

Do the ground owners really expect people to wait over an hour to shoot
a 2nd round of 25 shots, making it over 2 hours at the ground for 50
shots? (well, it is obvious they do!) I think most people, especially if
only doing 50 shots, would want to do it as one.
In my case, the ground owner has lost the income from me - no doubt I
would have bought something in the cafe, 2 boxes of No.9 cartridges, as
well as the entry fee. It has annoyed me at their lack of forethought,
and an attitude that does not help the County promote their
Championships.

You have to be really keen on skeet to want to do this, and especialy as
entry numbers for many County events are very poor, surely it is in
everyones interests to make it easier for people to enter these events,
and fit the event around the people who enter.

Maybe that is too sensible.I'm tempted to attend the area AGM, but
really, I think I'd be banging my head against a brick wall. I've
mentioned before about doing a monthly practice session for Olympic
Skeet to 2 ground owners, but both are completely uninterested, so the
County is very unlikely to ever have a national, or even regional
competitor in Oly. Skeet.
Moan over.
Alan

[David Christensen]

*Date:* Sat, 7 Oct 2006 21:02:22 +0100
It is the Leics. Skeet Doubles Champs tomorrow.
A prestigious county championship event?
Well, not quite, there were 5 people booked down for it at 4pm today.
I was going to put my name down, and asked what times were available -
any really. OK, 10am I say, then I noticed 2 times down on the list -
10am and 11:30am.
What is the 2nd time at 11:30 for? I ask.
'That is your second round.'
"But it is only 50 shots total, with 5 shooters on the squad, 50 shots
could be done in 40 minutes tops, and with what looks like 3 or 4 in a
squad, it may well be over in 30 minutes"
'Well, thats how it is planned'
"OK, dont bother putting me down then, as I just havent got time to hang
around here for an hour waiting for a 2nd round."

In my admittedly few years of shooting, I've only seen Skeet doubles
squadded in the same way as English Skeet - ie. straight through.
Although I'm surprised a county championship is only 50 birds - I would
have expected 100.

It's odd how some disciplines (OSK and most trap disciplines) interleave
squads on the layout, others never do (ESK, ESP) and some sometimes do
(FITASC).

In my view, as long as you know what you're letting yourself in for the
interleaved ones aren't too bad as you can settle in for a nice relaxed
all-day event. But it does make it an all day event. It also makes it
more likely that you have the relevant people around for any shootoff!

I'm tempted to attend the area AGM, but
really, I think I'd be banging my head against a brick wall.

No, please do go. As a county committee member in Cambridgeshire for 2
years, the one think I think we always want more of is feedback from the
members.

I've
mentioned before about doing a monthly practice session for Olympic
Skeet to 2 ground owners, but both are completely uninterested, so the
County is very unlikely to ever have a national, or even regional
competitor in Oly. Skeet.

We lack grounds covering most disciplines in Cambridgeshire, but there are
quite a few in neighbouring counties. It puts a few more miles on the
clock, but it can support county championships. Indeed this year only a
single Cambridgeshire championship was held in Cambridgeshire, IIRC.

DC

[KatieKrieghoff]

Blimey Alan, you kick ass mofo! Thats what we need someone with an
opinion! Now go write the same in PULL! - thats a voice that you have
and you can use it, its your uncensored voice so express an opinion,
please.

But as far as skeet doubles is concerned? There were indeed only a few
names down on Saturday, knowing this I woke on Sunday torn between
doing Grange and Kibworth before Sywell (well done Mrs C!) one of them
or none of them .... as it happened I woke too late to make Grange so I
shot skeet doubles on a squad of one! Turned up, went straight out,
shot straight thro ... and .... well it was ok but I rushed it dropping
(cough cough) too many - enjoyed it though.

If no-ones booked on you will go straight thro Alan, they wouldnt have
made you wait, theres a plan and reality - reality and sensibilty
sometimes wins through! (especially with persuasion)

Skeet in general has a hardcore of shooters - elite, pretty good and
people that just shoot it because they like it. The hardcore shoot
skeet skeet and more skeet, they live it. The pretty good ones may try
hard but have bad luck, lack concentration or arent quite there yet or
just shoot lots of things and dont neccessarily want to be 'skeet
shooters'. The ones that enjoy it dont really mind what happens do
they? They would like to be better but its not life or death!

Sooo the hardcore will do the county, national and world events. The
pretty good will do the county, some national events and may try to get
into the england team. The others .... they dont seem to enter
competitions or if they do its generally the annual county championship
and not the money comps.

Basically if you look at your own county and those that shoot skeet,
you may know the people that are hardcore, pretty good and the others.
You have to put in 98's / 99's as a minimum and be able to pull out the
occasional 100 straight. If you cant do this youre never going to be
anywhere. To be this good skeet shooting has to be automatic,
instinctual, its repetative, cool calm ... there is a process, a method
and you have to make no mistakes, kill high there and low there - each
and every time. You deviate, leave high too long and low is somewhere
different, you break the pattern, things become less predictable.

Who do you know that takes skeet this seriously? Not many people. It
is of no benefit to the county to invest in shooters, sure you may win
the Intercounties but thats it, nothing else. It is up to the
individual to shoot, practice and develop. Individuals may approach
coaches for help and those coaches may give their time free and
willingly, but if you want to be good you have to be the one with drive
and passion to beat the rest.

Taking Olympic Skeet as an example - a ground owner has to have the
correct trap - you need a delay for OS, you need to wind the spring
up, the clay needs to travel a little further and faster, you need to
set that range aside, your regular skeet for fun shooter wont enjoy it
and the ground owner will lose money and time ..... and who is crying
out for Olympic skeet? It has to be shot gun down, no movement, 24g
shells, two shots from station 8. Scores are lower and people will
have a tendency to move before seeing the bird or shoot it premounted -
so their scores will not be fairly compared to someone taking it
seriously. It aint gonna happen Al!!

Anyway .... if you want to shoot skeet seriously you know who to talk
to, but share a coffee with me too and tell me your thoughts!

Post by +.com (A.Lee)
It is the Leics. Skeet Doubles Champs tomorrow.
A prestigious county championship event?
Well, not quite, there were 5 people booked down for it at 4pm today.
I was going to put my name down, and asked what times were available -
any really. OK, 10am I say, then I noticed 2 times down on the list -
10am and 11:30am.
What is the 2nd time at 11:30 for? I ask.
'That is your second round.'
"But it is only 50 shots total, with 5 shooters on the squad, 50 shots
could be done in 40 minutes tops, and with what looks like 3 or 4 in a
squad, it may well be over in 30 minutes"
'Well, thats how it is planned'
"OK, dont bother putting me down then, as I just havent got time to hang
around here for an hour waiting for a 2nd round."
Do the ground owners really expect people to wait over an hour to shoot
a 2nd round of 25 shots, making it over 2 hours at the ground for 50
shots? (well, it is obvious they do!) I think most people, especially if
only doing 50 shots, would want to do it as one.
In my case, the ground owner has lost the income from me - no doubt I
would have bought something in the cafe, 2 boxes of No.9 cartridges, as
well as the entry fee. It has annoyed me at their lack of forethought,
and an attitude that does not help the County promote their
Championships.
You have to be really keen on skeet to want to do this, and especialy as
entry numbers for many County events are very poor, surely it is in
everyones interests to make it easier for people to enter these events,
and fit the event around the people who enter.
Maybe that is too sensible.I'm tempted to attend the area AGM, but
really, I think I'd be banging my head against a brick wall. I've
mentioned before about doing a monthly practice session for Olympic
Skeet to 2 ground owners, but both are completely uninterested, so the
County is very unlikely to ever have a national, or even regional
competitor in Oly. Skeet.
Moan over.
Alan
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

[+.com (A.Lee)]

KatieKrieghoff <***@aol.com> wrote:
Snip loads.

Post by KatieKrieghoff
Blimey Alan, you kick ass mofo! Thats what we need someone with an
opinion! Now go write the same in PULL! - thats a voice that you have
and you can use it, its your uncensored voice so express an opinion,
please.

Well, not really. You know how easy it is to upset people with the
slightest comment about something that wasnt meant to offend. People
only want to hear about good news - Mick at Kibworth thought the DTL
champs went really well, yes, the event went off well, but when only 15
people enter, it is rather difficult to make a balls-up of it.
These events are not promoted at all, and only the 'hardcore' shooter
will attend, as they are the only ones who know it is happening.
I should have gone to Kibworth on Sunday, but I saw the names on the
first squad (A.B + S.H), and thought they'd want to stick to the
published times, so I had a quiet day at home for a change (my garden is
looking neat again!).
With so few entries to some of the County events, it really has to be
asked if they are worth continuing with, or whether the County CPSA
should make an effort to get more people involved in them, by doing some
proper promotion of the events.
The Oly. Skeet was a good case - there were 150 sporting shooters there
that day (the OSK was held after a 100 ESP), yet only 8(?) entries.
No-one, apart from those who entered had a clue that the OSK was on, so
why didnt they have some notices up saying it was on - for the £10 entry
fee, I'm sure many more would have just had a go.As for the 28g loads,
if a ESP shoooter wanted to have a go, then let them, but say they cant
be eligible for the prizes with 28g loads. A more sensible approach
would be for the ground owner to buy 500 24g shells, and sell them to
the shooters on the day.
I'll be attending at least the Leic&Rut. AGM, but can you really expect
the ground owners to take on board any cooments? They like a good
write-up, but they dont want to do anything extra.
Maybe now that Kibworth has had a shake-up, it may help for next year.

Alan. (I'll be at Kibworth next Sunday for the ESP).

[KatieKrieghoff]

Hmmm people may only like to hear good news but if people dont express
an opinion we all melt into one 'ho ho ho' society where everybody says
that things are wonderful but underneath and at home they are not happy
and are moaning.

That opinion has to be expressed as I am sure that they wont be alone
in their thoughts, things can only change if people say what they
think.

Use the letters page in PULL! and if youre afraid of upsetting people
then nothing will ever change.

[KatieKrieghoff]

Alan ... DC's a decent skeet shooter too you know!

DC how about that group shoot sometime and we get Al along too?

[Dave P]

Post by KatieKrieghoff
Alan ... DC's a decent skeet shooter too you know!
DC how about that group shoot sometime and we get Al along too?

I'm down in the midlands (Grantham) for a week starting next Thurs. I'd like
to put a few names to faces if you're getting together!

Dave
Argyll

[KatieKrieghoff]

Hmmmm how about a Doveridge or Sporting Targets day?

What date?

[Dave P]

Post by KatieKrieghoff
Hmmmm how about a Doveridge or Sporting Targets day?
What date?

Is the weekend better or a week day?

Dave

[David Christensen]

*Date:* Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:15:57 +0100

Post by KatieKrieghoff
Alan ... DC's a decent skeet shooter too you know!
DC how about that group shoot sometime and we get Al along too?

I'm down in the midlands (Grantham) for a week starting next Thurs. I'd
like to put a few names to faces if you're getting together!
Dave
Argyll

Sadly (from this point of view) but happily (from our point of view) me
and the missus are emptying the gunsafe and going to a shooting B&B in
wales for almost exactly the same period. {and the housesitter we've got
moving in would like to say a big "this is my cleaver" hello to any
burglars reading the newsgroup. Honest guv. He's an ex-marine. If he
wasn't so scary we might not be going to Wales :) ).

B&B with an onsite clay ground and 450 acres of rough shooting [not that
I'd know what the latter means in a clay newsgroup of course] - where
better to go?

We're only going for 5 days, but we've already made a gunshop very happy
with the quantity of cartridges we've bought.

DC
[ever so slightly de-mob happy]

[newsreader]

jealous ? me ? ? ?
you bet.

Enjoy.

Post by David Christensen

*Date:* Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:15:57 +0100

Post by KatieKrieghoff
Alan ... DC's a decent skeet shooter too you know!
DC how about that group shoot sometime and we get Al along too?

I'm down in the midlands (Grantham) for a week starting next Thurs. I'd
like to put a few names to faces if you're getting together!
Dave
Argyll

Sadly (from this point of view) but happily (from our point of view) me
and the missus are emptying the gunsafe and going to a shooting B&B in
wales for almost exactly the same period. {and the housesitter we've got
moving in would like to say a big "this is my cleaver" hello to any
burglars reading the newsgroup. Honest guv. He's an ex-marine. If he
wasn't so scary we might not be going to Wales :) ).
B&B with an onsite clay ground and 450 acres of rough shooting [not that
I'd know what the latter means in a clay newsgroup of course] - where
better to go?
We're only going for 5 days, but we've already made a gunshop very happy
with the quantity of cartridges we've bought.
DC
[ever so slightly de-mob happy]

[David Christensen]

*Date:* Fri, 13 Oct 2006 01:21:25 GMT
jealous ? me ? ? ?
you bet.
Enjoy.

I'm sure we will. B&B with attached restaurant. I'm guessing that game
features heavily on the menu :) At least I'm hoping clay doesn't :))

DC

[David Christensen]

*Date:* 9 Oct 2006 16:35:43 -0700
Alan ... DC's a decent skeet shooter too you know!

Someone tell that to my county team manager. I Shot an 87 in the National
Intercounties (ALL SCORES COUNT :( ). My second-worst-ever registered
ESK. The only time I've shot worse was my first registered ESK.

The only thing I can say in my defence is that in the regional I/C I shot
a personal best :)

Wouldn't have been so bad if I'd done it the other way round as the lowest
two scores per team are discarded in the regional I/C....

DC how about that group shoot sometime and we get Al along too?

Sounds good (but see my other post)

DC

[r***@btinternet.com]

Well pop down to Kingsferry G C on the Isle of Sheppey. An awful
island true enough but a pleasantly run skeet club and they'll let you
do Olympic skeet practice most weekends and EVERY wednesday.

I find it a bit too quick for my abilities but I certainly prefer
shooting gun down and think the variable delay on the clay delivery
makes it much more a sport and less an exercise in yawn making tedium.

hth

Richard

Post by +.com (A.Lee)
mentioned before about doing a monthly practice session for Olympic
Skeet to 2 ground owners, but both are completely uninterested, so the
County is very unlikely to ever have a national, or even regional
competitor in Oly. Skeet.
Moan over.
Alan
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

[KatieKrieghoff]

Alternatively if you want to shoot OS ... go somewhere more local - ie
doveridge.

Slightly easier than a trip darn sarf

I think the question is not where can you shoot OSK but the lack of
training to county shooters wishing to get some support and assistance.