No more ESP for me!

[+.com (A.Lee)]

After another dismal 100 shot sporting round yesterday, I've finally
come to the conclsion that I'll never be good at Sporting with my
current level of income, and subsequent lack of practice, so I'm not
bothering any more.

This time last year, I was getting better at each shoot, but then, I
could afford to have a 50 shot round on Thursday, and another 50 or 100
on the Saturday, then a 100 shot ESP event on the Sunday.
Loads of practice meant scores getting better.
Financial reality has hit me, and I can only afford to do the 100 esp
events now, and my scores have gone rapidly downhill, and my realistaion
that I do not know where I am missing the birds - I think you know when
you are shooting well, because when you miss, you know exactly where you
missed.
Yesterday I was missing loads, and didnt know where I was going wrong.It
was probably the 5th or 6th time that I was really disappointed with it
since Christmas, so I've given in, and will stick to Skeet and Trap
shooting, where I can still tell where I missed a bird.
Also, to do 200 Registered targets at Skeet or DTL, is roughly the same
price as doing 100 ESP. Skeet/DTL reg. are £19/100. ESP comp. is £34,
add £3 for the pool shoot, and the ESP looks very expensive.
Yes, there is a chance of prize money, but the way I'm shooting, I'll
wont event get in the top 10 of 'C' class. Even so, the comp fee is only
£6 extra, so birds only at £28 is till not cheap.

Also, even if it isnt at the top level, hitting 90+ birds on skeet/dtl
is still satisfying for me.
Alan.

[Tim Guy]

Post by +.com (A.Lee)
Also, even if it isnt at the top level, hitting 90+ birds on skeet/dtl
is still satisfying for me.

I dream of hitting 90+.. in an discipline

Last 100's I did were 75,62,65,67

And that's about as good as it gets.

I've scaled down my shooting. I do twice a month at a local shoot and that's
purely to catch up with my mates and go and have a beer.

Ill still go to DeeDees ever year and Im sure the odd bank holday shoot but
thats my limit.

My Fibre clay busters have gone up to 105pounds a Thou from 100 quid, and I
reckon cartridge prices will get higher.

Round prices are starting to go up locally and its all getting a tad to
expensive..

Cost me 50quid for a couple of hours shooting, or, and I'm ashamed to say, I
can have a 4 hour round of Golf for 15quid.

Golf Gay? Yeah.. Cant take it seriously But again, socially its cheaper than
shooting.

Tim

[David Christensen]

*Date:* Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:52:33 +0100
After another dismal 100 shot sporting round yesterday, I've finally
come to the conclsion that I'll never be good at Sporting with my
current level of income, and subsequent lack of practice, so I'm not
bothering any more.
This time last year, I was getting better at each shoot, but then, I
could afford to have a 50 shot round on Thursday, and another 50 or 100
on the Saturday, then a 100 shot ESP event on the Sunday.
Loads of practice meant scores getting better.
Financial reality has hit me, and I can only afford to do the 100 esp
events now, and my scores have gone rapidly downhill, and my realistaion
that I do not know where I am missing the birds - I think you know when
you are shooting well, because when you miss, you know exactly where you
missed.
Yesterday I was missing loads, and didnt know where I was going wrong.It
was probably the 5th or 6th time that I was really disappointed with it
since Christmas, so I've given in, and will stick to Skeet and Trap
shooting, where I can still tell where I missed a bird.
Also, to do 200 Registered targets at Skeet or DTL, is roughly the same
price as doing 100 ESP. Skeet/DTL reg. are £19/100. ESP comp. is £34,
add £3 for the pool shoot, and the ESP looks very expensive.
Yes, there is a chance of prize money, but the way I'm shooting, I'll
wont event get in the top 10 of 'C' class. Even so, the comp fee is only
£6 extra, so birds only at £28 is till not cheap.
Also, even if it isnt at the top level, hitting 90+ birds on skeet/dtl
is still satisfying for me.
Alan.

Everyone has rough patches though. I (silly me) have recorded the scores
of pretty much all the shoots I have done since I started shooting
seriously in May 2003. About 36000 clays. I seem to have a fairly
cyclical performance whereby my scores at sporting can vary by 30%. In
Apr04 I was averaging 72%. By Oct04 it was 62%. Jun05 82%. Oct 05 60%.
Jun06 79% (those were the days). Nov 06 69%. Current 74% and heading down.
And these are moving averages, not individual scores. People change; if
you're not confident in your shooting, your scores go down. If your
scores go down, you get less confident in your shooting. Sooner or later
you say you can't be bothered any more, stop worrying about it, and your
scores go up.

How often do you *practice* sporting? Not do a small competition or a big
competition, but practice? At Skeet or Trap, all competition is practice,
because the targets are repeatable. Although even with skeet I would
suggest you are better off practice 10 on station 1 then 10 on station 2,
then... on station 7. Repeatable performance and "muscle memory" comes
from repeating success, not missing things and moving on in a sporting
competition.

Find yourself a ground with claymate or a friendly owner. Go to a stand.
Do not allow yourself to leave it until you have shot 10 in a row.
[although if you get through a couple of boxes and still haven't done ten
in a row, admit it is too hard and move on to an easy one to get your
confidence back].

ESP competition might be £34/100 or even £28/100 BO, but if you can't find
a practice ground at £20/100 then you're unlucky.

Just me tuppence worth...

DC

[Larry Armitstead]

Post by David Christensen

*Date:* Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:52:33 +0100
After another dismal 100 shot sporting round yesterday, I've finally
come to the conclsion that I'll never be good at Sporting with my
current level of income, and subsequent lack of practice, so I'm not
bothering any more.
This time last year, I was getting better at each shoot, but then, I
could afford to have a 50 shot round on Thursday, and another 50 or 100
on the Saturday, then a 100 shot ESP event on the Sunday.
Loads of practice meant scores getting better.
Financial reality has hit me, and I can only afford to do the 100 esp
events now, and my scores have gone rapidly downhill, and my realistaion
that I do not know where I am missing the birds - I think you know when
you are shooting well, because when you miss, you know exactly where you
missed.
Yesterday I was missing loads, and didnt know where I was going wrong.It
was probably the 5th or 6th time that I was really disappointed with it
since Christmas, so I've given in, and will stick to Skeet and Trap
shooting, where I can still tell where I missed a bird.
Also, to do 200 Registered targets at Skeet or DTL, is roughly the same
price as doing 100 ESP. Skeet/DTL reg. are £19/100. ESP comp. is £34,
add £3 for the pool shoot, and the ESP looks very expensive.
Yes, there is a chance of prize money, but the way I'm shooting, I'll
wont event get in the top 10 of 'C' class. Even so, the comp fee is only
£6 extra, so birds only at £28 is till not cheap.
Also, even if it isnt at the top level, hitting 90+ birds on skeet/dtl
is still satisfying for me.
Alan.

Everyone has rough patches though. I (silly me) have recorded the scores
of pretty much all the shoots I have done since I started shooting
seriously in May 2003. About 36000 clays. I seem to have a fairly
cyclical performance whereby my scores at sporting can vary by 30%. In
Apr04 I was averaging 72%. By Oct04 it was 62%. Jun05 82%. Oct 05 60%.
Jun06 79% (those were the days). Nov 06 69%. Current 74% and heading down.
And these are moving averages, not individual scores. People change; if
you're not confident in your shooting, your scores go down. If your
scores go down, you get less confident in your shooting. Sooner or later
you say you can't be bothered any more, stop worrying about it, and your
scores go up.
How often do you *practice* sporting? Not do a small competition or a big
competition, but practice? At Skeet or Trap, all competition is practice,
because the targets are repeatable. Although even with skeet I would
suggest you are better off practice 10 on station 1 then 10 on station 2,
then... on station 7. Repeatable performance and "muscle memory" comes
from repeating success, not missing things and moving on in a sporting
competition.
Find yourself a ground with claymate or a friendly owner. Go to a stand.
Do not allow yourself to leave it until you have shot 10 in a row.
[although if you get through a couple of boxes and still haven't done ten
in a row, admit it is too hard and move on to an easy one to get your
confidence back].
ESP competition might be £34/100 or even £28/100 BO, but if you can't find
a practice ground at £20/100 then you're unlucky.
Just me tuppence worth...
DC

Guys,
having been where you have been, I may have a possible solution. get
yourself a copy of 'You've gotta be out of your mind' by Viki & Gil Ash.
You will then find you do as much shooting practice WITHOUT a gun as
with!!
Crazy? Maybe. read the book OR
go to their website: www.ospschool.com.
Their other masterpiece is a volume called 'If it ain't broke, fix it'.
Another good read.
Does it work? Well I've seen my scores go up by an average of 15-20%, so
far. Even shot a couple of 90%+ scores recently. A very new experience
for me.

Interested in your thoughts.

Larry

[David Christensen]

*Date:* Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:16:42 +0100

*Date:* Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:52:33 +0100

[snip]

DC

Guys,
having been where you have been, I may have a possible solution. get
yourself a copy of 'You've gotta be out of your mind' by Viki & Gil
Ash. You will then find you do as much shooting practice WITHOUT a gun
as with!!
Crazy? Maybe. read the book OR
go to their website: www.ospschool.com.
Their other masterpiece is a volume called 'If it ain't broke, fix it'.
Another good read.
Does it work? Well I've seen my scores go up by an average of 15-20%,
so far. Even shot a couple of 90%+ scores recently. A very new
experience for me.
Interested in your thoughts.

I've got a copy of 'If it ain't broke, fix it' and thought it was a very
interesting and stimulating read. Ordered it via their website and it
turned up pretty quickly.

DC

[KatieKrieghoff]

Hey there big boy.

I don't think you should worry Alan, keep shooting sporting and keep
learning - competition is a good form of practice.

Sporting targets change - no two shoots are the same and recently
Kibworths shoots have been a little tougher in places so its not just
daft to compare an April 06 result to an April 07 result - its
impossible.

Its not down to income or lack of practice really - its mental - you
still shoot something on a weekly basis and whatever you shoot its
putting targets under your belt.

Shooting 'practice' is not the same as competition - on that day the
only thing that matters is how you do against other shooters - if you
come off with a 68 and Husthwaite comes away with an 80 then youve
done well. However if you put in a 68 and 'C' class shots are in the
90's then ooo bugger! Practice might well help you on a 'type' of
target but it will never break the target for you on sunday at a
different ground. We all mess up, we all misread and just miss.

If you want to shoot well, experience is the key - not just practice
but learning target presentation. So you walk into a stand and your
brain recognises a teal and a long crosser (for example) you have shot
these before, you know how to break them, you know wher your feet will
be, your hold point, your swing, where you will take the first and
second shots, you can shoot these no problem.

As opposed to oo bugger what we got here then, where are they coming
from, oo I dont like the teal, that crossers a long way out, three
people before me have just missed them, I've got ¼ in and I reckon
that needs ½, missed, ****, where was i on that one, **** the crossers
gone, where did that come from .....

Misses dont really matter, as long as you can correct them, so on the
next shot you realise that to kill the target you have got to start a
little further back or just to toch the back edge and open up another
two foot of lead ... or whatever .... so the next time you see the
target you know how you will shoot it. You will do better next time,
because you know you should hit it, can hit it, will hit it.

Skeet and DTL - ok its feasible to put in 90's and if you were doing
this in sporting you would be very happy, but to be good you have to
put in 99's and 100's - C class shooters can do that from time to
time. Looking for high scores in skeet and trap are no substitute for
good sporting scores. Thats why those disciplines tend to have a
dedicated bunch of followers - they chase perfect score - everyone
else is nowhere, youre not a skeet or trap god with 90 youre a c class
shooter. In sporting 85.6 gets you into AAA.

Generally a decent sporting shot can shoot DTL, Skeet etc but a decent
trap / skeet shooter cant neccessarily shoot other disciplines that
well. Sure many can but as an overall apprenticeship I'd choose
sporting anyday as giving the best grounding to be an all round shot.

DC is a good all rounder :o)

[newsreader]

well said DC.
I would add never take the stand (ESP) without a plan of how to shoot it.
That way you can build your knowledge and learn to distinguish not
reading the bird and 'poor technique'. One of the reasons the big boys
are the big boys is that have seen every target you can think of many
times. If you read it properly you can learn to shoot it and build good
scores - if you can't read the birds you can score real badly with a
great technique !

Example - guy I shoot with regularly was shooting the British a few
years back in the same squad as Mr Faulds. Pair of incomers one of which
went straight through the bright sun. It was such that even the guys
with good eyeware were missing it. Faulds was at the end of the squad,
he takes the stand calls the birds, ignores the 'first' troublesome bird
completely, blows the 'second' one away early, turns around in the stand
and the hard first bird is standing high and easy in the sky and he
destroys it - as anyone would as it was a 'gimme' when taken there. All
nice and legal and barrels above the cage etc etc.
Faulds straights it with consummate ease. As anyone else in the squad
would have done if they had planned it the way he did. They all walked
away somewhat chagrined by the experience - but wiser.

Of course am assuming your gun fit, basic technique and eye dominance
have already been sorted. You could just be an a 'panic and slash at it'
phase....hard to see that in a NG....

Post by KatieKrieghoff
Hey there big boy.
I don't think you should worry Alan, keep shooting sporting and keep
learning - competition is a good form of practice.
Sporting targets change - no two shoots are the same and recently
Kibworths shoots have been a little tougher in places so its not just
daft to compare an April 06 result to an April 07 result - its
impossible.
Its not down to income or lack of practice really - its mental - you
still shoot something on a weekly basis and whatever you shoot its
putting targets under your belt.
Shooting 'practice' is not the same as competition - on that day the
only thing that matters is how you do against other shooters - if you
come off with a 68 and Husthwaite comes away with an 80 then youve
done well. However if you put in a 68 and 'C' class shots are in the
90's then ooo bugger! Practice might well help you on a 'type' of
target but it will never break the target for you on sunday at a
different ground. We all mess up, we all misread and just miss.
If you want to shoot well, experience is the key - not just practice
but learning target presentation. So you walk into a stand and your
brain recognises a teal and a long crosser (for example) you have shot
these before, you know how to break them, you know wher your feet will
be, your hold point, your swing, where you will take the first and
second shots, you can shoot these no problem.
As opposed to oo bugger what we got here then, where are they coming
from, oo I dont like the teal, that crossers a long way out, three
people before me have just missed them, I've got ¼ in and I reckon
that needs ½, missed, ****, where was i on that one, **** the crossers
gone, where did that come from .....
Misses dont really matter, as long as you can correct them, so on the
next shot you realise that to kill the target you have got to start a
little further back or just to toch the back edge and open up another
two foot of lead ... or whatever .... so the next time you see the
target you know how you will shoot it. You will do better next time,
because you know you should hit it, can hit it, will hit it.
Skeet and DTL - ok its feasible to put in 90's and if you were doing
this in sporting you would be very happy, but to be good you have to
put in 99's and 100's - C class shooters can do that from time to
time. Looking for high scores in skeet and trap are no substitute for
good sporting scores. Thats why those disciplines tend to have a
dedicated bunch of followers - they chase perfect score - everyone
else is nowhere, youre not a skeet or trap god with 90 youre a c class
shooter. In sporting 85.6 gets you into AAA.
Generally a decent sporting shot can shoot DTL, Skeet etc but a decent
trap / skeet shooter cant neccessarily shoot other disciplines that
well. Sure many can but as an overall apprenticeship I'd choose
sporting anyday as giving the best grounding to be an all round shot.
DC is a good all rounder :o)